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Chapfallen
Warnings : 7
Senior Villager
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 464
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Another opinion is what a full democracy in an Islamic country like Turkey will result to theocracy.
In west we had a direct collision with religions authority that leads to an ocean of blood, but now the times are different and the world can’t accept in politics the freedom of a fascist culture that never had and never will had some relation with democracy.
The problem can be solved only if the Islamic element sit somewhere out of politics and when the people understand this deep enough and I do not see that there are many options for the Turks and the military on that subject.
And if there was not the military and Ataturk, now Turkey was going to be the worst nightmare of west, unable even to dream a Europe accession, even if the today Islamic leadership seems that is not a danger because of the reality that the military power had create.
As about Greece they are also dangerous because of their stupid religion that is continuously trying to involved in politics and Greece constitution have middle ages provisions that can be used to justify behavior coming directly from theocracy.
But Greeks can’t really use these pathetic provisions because they will be humiliated in Europe that trying really hard to show tolerance in this bullshits.
In any way Greece is in much better situation because of Europe that let them in, where they was in a worst situation from what Turkey is today.
As about the headscarf I do not think what it will make any harm really but in a symbolic meaning maybe anything that have to do with the Islamic way in politics should be abolished for good.
Europe accepts the Islamic culture (imagine what they accepted the Judaochristian orthodox bullshit) but does not and never will be accept religions involved in politics. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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| A delayed handshake between Turkey"s leading soldier and its newly elected president has sealed a temporary truce between the government and a watchful army that suspects its of Islamic roots. |
http://washingtontimes.com/article/20070913/FOREIGN/109130040/1003
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| Since his election, Mr. Gul, a former foreign minister who has been Turkey's leading campaigner for joining the EU, has several times pledged his commitment to secularism and continuing reforms. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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| "There are two realities on Cyprus, two democracies, two states, two languages, two religions," President Abdullah Gul said, making his first foreign trip since becoming president last month. |
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/536641/1359287
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| Gul is the first Turkish head of state to visit northern Cyprus since the island joined the EU |
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| But the Cypriot foreign ministry in the south of the divided capital of Nicosia condemned Gul's trip to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, where Turkey still keeps an estimated 35,000 troops. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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| Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's Justice and Reconciliation Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi, AKP) swept to victory in Turkey's parliamentary elections on November 3, 2002. More than two years later, the Islamic-oriented party finds itself more popular than ever. But while the AKP came to power on the strength of its image as fresh and honest amid a sea of corrupt establishment parties, the AKP's own finances have become murky and worrisome. At best, it appears that AKP leaders have blurred the distinction between business and politics. More troubling yet is the pattern of tying Turkish domestic and foreign policy to an influx of what is called Yesil Sermaye, "green money," from wealthy Islamist businessmen and Middle Eastern states. |
http://www.meforum.org/article/684
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Erdoğan has been silent on the issue, perhaps because he is heavily invested in green money business. In August 2001, Rahmi Koç, chairman of Koç Holding, Turkey's largest and oldest conglomerate,[27] commented on CNN Türk that Erdoğan has a US$1 billion fortune and asked the source of his wealth.[28] According to Sedat Ergin, Ankara bureau chief for Hürriyet, Erdoğan holds substantial financial stakes in three different firms,[29] which both Turkish military and intelligence officers and, according to numerous interviews, the man-on-the-street as well, believe subsidize Islamist politics. The Erdoğan family controls approximately 50 percent of Emniyet Foods,[30] the distributor for Ülker, Turkey's leading confectionary company. Recep Erdoğan is a shareholder in Ihsan Foods, which distributes Ülker's dairy products and owns a 12 percent stake in Yenidoğan Foods Marketing, which distributes Ülker soft drinks. According to numerous Turkish diplomats and officers in the Turkish General Staff, the Turkish military refuses to buy Ülker products for its conscripts so as not to subsidize Islamism.[31] Nevertheless, since Erdoğan's accession, Ülker has become increasingly visible, perhaps as businesses seek the prime minister's favor. Across Istanbul and Ankara, Ülker's ColaTurka has begun to replace Coca-Cola in kiosks and store shelves. According to Ergin,
These commercial activities of the prime minister had no illegal aspect whatsoever. However, conformity with law does not mean conformity with the public conscience and with clean and transparent politics.[32] |
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| To its credit, the Erdoğan administration has initiated inexpensive but popular reforms long ignored by previous governments. According to a schoolteacher in the central Anatolian town of Konya, the government's decision to distribute free textbooks to students is extremely popular. That the city of Konya, along with Kayseri, 200 miles east, provides AKP's core support is no coincidence. Erdoğan has recently initiated other reforms geared more at winning hearts and minds than at serious economic restructuring. On July 23, 2004, Turkish radio reported rumors that the AKP would cut taxes on cigarettes. In a country where half of all adults smoke,[15] such measures affect every family. Two months later, the Islamist, pro-AKP daily Yeni Şafak headlined on September 26 that Erdoğan would cut taxes on consumer goods.[16] Both party members and opponents acknowledge that Erdoğan listens to his constituents and works to implement concrete, tangible programs along with broader ideological policies.[17] |
...very good article on this issue in Turkish politics. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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double post (deleted)
Last edited by repulsewarrior on Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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more news...
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1558863820080315
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Turkish PM condemns bid to shut down his party
A state prosecutor asked Turkey's Constitutional Court on Friday to close the AK Party because he said it was trying to destroy secularism and turn the country into an Islamic state. |
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| "Nobody can depict the AK Party... as a hotbed of anti-secular activity... Nobody can deflect us from our path. We will continue our democratic march with the same determination." |
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moonskin
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 515
Location: Freiburg, Germany
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
more news...
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1558863820080315
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Turkish PM condemns bid to shut down his party
A state prosecutor asked Turkey's Constitutional Court on Friday to close the AK Party because he said it was trying to destroy secularism and turn the country into an Islamic state. |
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| "Nobody can depict the AK Party... as a hotbed of anti-secular activity... Nobody can deflect us from our path. We will continue our democratic march with the same determination." |
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The probability that AKP will be shut down by the supreme court is next to 0.
A prosecutor can file any case he would like to for the consideration of higher court. There is nothing wrong with this. It is his/her job. If s/he thinks that AKP has broken the law in such a way that its existence is becoming a threat to the Turkish democracy, of course s/he is going to file a closing request.
The problem is that, is there really good enough evidence to support this case? And the actual, fundamental issue currently is whether Turkish juristical system has the necessary objectiveness to reject such a case if there are no firm evidence that AKP has actually committed the violations in question.
The extremely recent past shows that it does not have the necessary objectivity. Putting it in an even more straightforward way, the so called "Turkish elite" or the "nationalist camp" is still very strong in the country and it remains to be seen if their "inspiration" on the highest Turkish court is still alive.
Here are some notes:
1. The supreme (or constitutional) court is made up from 11 judges appointed by the president. They serve until they reach the age limit.
2. As a result of the recent changes, it is necessary now to get 7 votes out of 11 in order to shut down a party.
3. AKP has the necessary strength to change the law and make it harder, if not impossible (they still need to have a tool at hand to shut down the Kurdish parties you see) for a party to be shut down. MHP supports the idea as well. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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well.... they will put AKP on trial!
now we can only speculate erdogans reaction, and the final outcome.
the process alone (let aside the outcome, and who will win) can have conqequences on political and economic stability, EU accession process... and the cyppro!
actually who do the Turkish Cypriots prefer to win ? |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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Comment: Ergenekon investigation in Turkey
COMMENT: By Marios Matsakis MEP 03.JUL.08
The recent swift detentions in relation to the Ergenekon investigation in Turkey, demonstrates clearly the strong will of the democratically elected government of the country, to stamp out terrorist activity where-ever it comes from, even from within its own Army ranks.
Prime Minister Erdogan and his Government are to be warmly congratulated for the courage demonstrated in such drastic action, which aims solely at upholding the Rule of Law and at making sure that, the investigation into a highly dangerous criminal conspiracy against Democracy and the Turkish people, is carried out fully and decidedly.
Whilst of course expecting that, all human rights of detainees should be fully respected, the European Union must provide all political support needed to the Turkish Government in these difficult times in order to assist it, to proceed in its difficult task of rooting out what appears to be an Army instigated terrorism in the country.
The time has come it seems, to attempt seriously, to send the Army Generals back to their barracks, or to prison in some instances, and leave politics to the democratically elected Politicians.
It is my strong belief that, all efforts in this direction will help to bring Turkey even closer to Europe and its Fundamental Principles of Democracy and Justice.
They will also help to bring Turkish political life into the 21st century and not leave it to stagnate into the 1920's, as some narrow-minded fanatics in the country so desperately want.
Marios Matsakis MEP (Cyprus) - Copyright © Famagusta Gazette 2008 |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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Mass detentions shock Turkey
04.07.2008
c. Cyprus Observer
Tensions rise again as 21 public figures detained overnight for Ergenekon operation
On Tuesday Turkish police detained a total of 21 people, including two retired high-ranking generals, a journalist and a chamber of commerce chairman, who were believed to be members of a state-backed gang.
The former military police chief, General Sener Eruygur and former army number two, General Hursit Tolon as well as Mustafa Balbay, bureau chief of the secularist daily Cumhuriyet, were taken into custody in Ankara in the latest twist in investigations that began last year.
Operation Ergenekon, which started last year, had geared up since the closure case against the AKP was filed and accuses retired commanders, journalists and politicians with suspected links to an illegal gang which was accused of paving the way to a military coup. The arrested men allegedly planned to assassinate public intellectuals, Kurdish politicians, even target military personnel, as part of a campaign to destabilise Turkish society and force military intervention. They are also accused of a spate of high-profile killings and a plot to murder the Nobel Prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk.
Other names detained
Police also searched the homes of Cumhuriyet employees. Nearly half of those detained were members of the Kemalist Thought Association (ADD), a secularist NGO founded in 1989 and led by detained General Eruygur, to promote the principles of Turkey's founder. Retired colonel Atilla Ugur and Osman Gurbuz were also taken into custody by police in the southern province of Antalya, TV channels reported. Former AKP deputy, Turhan Comez, who was an opponent of Erdogan are sought by police. Retired Brigadier General Levent Ersoz was also detained. Aygun, on arrival at his office under police escort where a search was carried out, told reporters that he has been accused for his devotion to Ataturk and the Turkish Republic. Editor-in-chief of daily ‘Halka ve Olaylara Tercuman’, Ufuk Buyukcelebi, was also detained in Istanbul. Police searched Buyukcelebi's office at the daily's headquarters and seized some documents.
Public and international reaction
Hundreds of people gathered in front of Cumhuriyet's offices in Istanbul to protest against the detentions. The paper opposes Turkey's ruling Islamist-leaning AKP party. Small anti-government demonstrations broke out in Istanbul, Izmir, Denizli and Bodrum, Turkish media reported.
"I'm watching these events unfold with great concern given Turkey's history of military interventions. There is clearly a fight between two power groups and no one is yet willing to back down," said a senior EU diplomat, according to Reuters, and he declined to be named.
"The raids yesterday were reminiscent of previous coups and are not acceptable," Rifat Hisarciklioglu, the influential chairman of the Turkish Union of Chambers and Commodities Exchanges, said in a speech at the Ankara Chamber of Commerce.
Turkey's second most powerful military commander called for calm on Wednesday. “Turkey is passing through difficult days. We all have to be acting with more common sense, more carefully and more responsibly,” land forces commander General Ilker Basbug, who is due to take charge of the military in August, told reporters.
Charges on terrorism
Turkish television NTV reported that Istanbul Deputy Chief Prosecutor Turhan Colakkadi as saying an indictment against Ergenekon had been completed and its members would be tried for terrorism.
Cumhuriyet daily columnist Cuneyt Arcayurek and lawyer Lutfuhan Karagozoglu, representing the newspaper, reportedly said documents belonging to journalist Mustafa Balbay were confiscated by police and taken to Istanbul.
“Three computers, two of them portable computers, and some CDs were taken,” Karagozoglu was quoted by Turkish daily Hurriyet as saying.
Karagozoglu also said that although the decision to start the investigation was taken on June 29 the conducting of the police operation on Tuesday raises suspicions and implies a coincidence with the top prosecutor presenting his testimony.
In a response to Cumhuriyet's claims that the prosecutors intentionally waited two days to coincide the detentions with the verbal indictment in the closure case, the Defence Minister said it took time to organise all the required permissions, Hurriyet reported. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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| Quote: |
The submission of the report prepared by Constitutional Court rapporteur Osman Can was viewed as an indication of the case’s outcome. Can notes that the AK Party should not be banned, referencing universal legal criteria. The report distributed to the 11 court members has no binding effect; it serves as a supportive and guiding text. However it may also be seen as an important indicator. The members who will ask for the closure of the AK Party will have to invent and defend justifications and reasons that would invalidate the evidences and reasoning contained in this report. It is easy to find legal justifications for non-closure. Conversely, it is hard to find justification for the party’s closure.
http://www.zaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=147872
The most important expected outcome was to ensure the emergence of a political alternative to the AK Party. Because the belief that the sociological processes may be interrupted and manipulated by decisions made on the table is popular among the elites in Turkey, the political engineering projects devised to rearrange the political life attract a great deal of attention. The closure case against the AK Party was basically oriented toward division in the AK Party and the creation of a new power alternative with the participation of non-political elites. In these days where the closure case is entering its last phase, it has become apparent that no such alternative would emerge. |
...a very good article worth reading. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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The poll supports the notion that the general tendency of the Turkish public is to increase support for EU membership in the face of processes perceived to be anti-democratic. The increase follows the failed attempt of a state prosecutor to close the ruling AK Party
In response to a question on how the respondent would rate his or her sense of trust on a scale of 1 to 10 for various individuals and state agencies, the highest trust rating went to the military (8.7), followed by the police (7.7) , President Abdullah Gül (7.1), the judiciary (6.9), the Constitutional Court (6.7), Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (6.4), Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) leader Devlet Bahçeli (4.0) and finally CHP leader Deniz Baykal (3.1).
Asked who they would vote for if there was an election today, 42 percent of respondents said they would vote for the AK Party, followed by the CHP (13.9 percent), the MHP (8.4 percent) and the DTP (1.8 percent). Of the remaining respondents, 12.5 percent said they were undecided, while 7.2 percent said they would simply vote a blank ballot; 3.8 percent said they wouldn't go to the ballot box at all, while 5.4 percent said they had no opinion.
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=149752 |
...more, very interesting article. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1771
Location: Canada
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Ergenekon Visitor Gen. Galip Mendi Connected To A Past Assasination In Cyprus
Yalyalı said, “The General Staff was backing this person in the past, too.”
“This was Ergenekon at its best. I always say that if one wants to look at Cyprus, one will see the laboratory of the Special War Office of the deep state politics.
Adalı was first threatened and then killed for the articles he had written about the illegal activities of the Civil Defense Organization headed by Mendi.
He also reminded that the murders the Special War Office of Turkey had committed in Cyprus since 1960’s were not limited to the Adalı murder. For example, journalist Haşmet Gürkan, who had supported the continuance of the United Cyprus Republic, was killed as well. (EÖ/EÜ/TB)
http://www.bianet.org/english/kategori/english/109515/ergenekon-visitor-gen-galip-mendi-connected-to-a-past-murder-in-cyprus |
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city
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